Some
may be familiar with the name Matron Thorn, as he is the mastermind
behind renowned
bands such
as
Benighted in Sodom,
Ævangelist and
Death Fetishist among others.
In the interview below, we get to
cover some of the history
behind the music, as well as an insight into some of the ideas and
influences that led to it.
Please
shed some light on some of your current projects, as well as notable
outputs of the past.
Benighted
in Sodom is my oldest most serious project which started almost 20
years ago now. Ævangelist might be my most known within metal, and
that came somewhat later. These are still active and lately people
can also discover my work in Præternatura, Oblivion Gate, Death
Fetishist, Ragnarökkur, Cathaaria, and more in regards to anything
related to metal. Non-metal music I make goes even farther from here
with Rust-Colored Glasses (trip hop/soundtrack/ambient) and solo
released works (new age/darkwave).
Tell
us about your first experience with extreme metal and how your taste
evolved over time.
Before
I made music of my own, I was much more open to discovery of new
music where metal was concerned. I bought CDs back then, and it was a
time when being in a band and putting out a CD seemed like an
achievement that not everyone deserved, so to me, if it existed on
some format that meant there was something special about it. I miss
feeling that way about new bands. I ordered much of what became long
term favorites at the bookstore in town, things like Tenth Sub-Level
of Suicide and Fas - Ite, Maledicti, in Ignem Aeternum and De
Profundis Mors vas Consumet to name a few, having done that because
local music stores in South Florida were pretty clueless about
anything besides the most basic of choices. But mostly, I downloaded
music and I don't feel bad about this whatsoever. I did even try to
start a "record collection" at one point, but when I moved
away to Oregon, a family member threw all my records in the trash,
including a first edition of Behemoth's The Return of the Northern
Moon demo, first edition of Shining - III - Angst, a rare version of
Nocturnal Poisoning by Xasthur, and several others. I never placed
much value in material possessions but it was hard to get over that.
My collection of downloaded music has survived through years, though.
New music has been added to this archive since I was sixteen, and
transferred into new external hard drives periodically over the
years. When I have actually have free time to listen to music that
isn't mine, instead of looking for new bands I plug in the external
hard drive and take a trip down memory lane. The archive is vast and
diverse, because at the time I didn't really discriminate against any
bands as long as there was something to appreciate. There's music in
there that I ripped from my browser from old random myspace black
metal bands whose music was never destined for success but still had
some quality that I wanted to revisit. Other weird selections no one
else but myself seems to appreciate are classics like Garm's
seemingly forgotten rock n roll outing, Head Control System, a live
rip of Ondskapt's first ever performance, all kinds of Century Black
releases (Century Media's old imprint for Black Metal), various Dark
Ambient music from bands like Kammarheit and Inade, Folkearth and
music from that guy from Nae'blis, and the list goes on almost 2
Terabytes deep.
You
are constantly crafting and releasing new music. What keeps you
motivated? And where do you find the inspiration?
Above
all things, I make music that I enjoy listening to. I refined my
formula, my signature, my "special sauce", to be completely
self sufficient, to know how to create the sounds I need to hear and
reformat and recontextualize them into new shapes. I used music to
cope with hard times and I believe this is part of why so many people
have told me that they've used my music to do the same. But the truth
for me is that I rarely listen to anything new anymore, because what
I need from music has already been refined in either my own work or
in something I've found already. I create new music to mainly satisfy
my need to consume something that I feel a real connection to, and in
order to feel a real connection to it I must find it to be somehow
relatable, and that almost never happens anymore because I can't
relate to anything lately. To relate to something doesn't exactly
have to mean that it's the subject matter that I connect with, it
could be musically or artistically relatable.
A
much more concise way to say all that is that I can create the
perfect soundtrack to my life on my own, so I don't really need
anything else. Of course I listen to music that isn't mine, it's just
an impossibly specific selection of things. There's songs from albums
that I've listened to for years and never once even bothered to check
out the other tracks on those albums. Those specific songs gave me
what I was looking for, so why bother?
Fields
of my inspiration are fertile for harvesting music and art, because
their soil is soaked with blood and dead skin shed in the past; pain
and suffering enriched my dreams with clarity, music became the
window through which the past, and thereby the future, are seen.
Most
people familiar with USBM will know you from Benighted in Sodom.
Would it be safe to say that this was your first serious musical
undertaking? How would you sum up its ethos?
Benighted
in Sodom was the first real black metal project, and really my only
project for a long time until I started Ævangelist several years
later. Midwinter Storm was the very first project of any kind but in
over 25 full albums it leaps all over the place stylistically. I was
very depressed when the early albums were recorded, which was also a
formative time for me as a recording musician. Crude recording
methods were used, but the modesty of those means appropriately
reflects both the state of my life and my mind at the time. What
people laugh about now, the lo-fi production I and countless others
used to create some of the best of what black metal used to have, was
endearing back then because it didn't represent laziness, it
represented passion. It was painful, desperate art created by any
means necessary. It wasn't exactly made that way intentionally, or at
least this is how I perceived it back then. The point was simply to
create the art, to manifest these emotions to their fullest with
whatever you had. If you were poor, inexperienced, terminally
depressed and a drug addict or mentally ill, you weren't waiting for
the latest version of ProTools and considering the proper gear, you
were at the edge of your life knowing that tomorrow was not promised
to you and this art could truly be your last goodbye or your last
fuck you to a world that created so much misery, or because you
weren't just pretending to seek real darkness and managed to catch a
glimpse of it during some clandestine and tormented, violent
recording sessions. I did Benighted in Sodom to live out these ideas,
because that's how I felt. I had nothing, and I wanted to make
something genuine which symbolized exactly that. I wasn't thinking
about paying tribute to Darkthrone or any hero worship, I wanted to
make something pure that came from my own murk within. This has never
changed, and that ethos of seeking purity and authenticity is alive
in every project I have now. I've tried many, many times to explain
this to others, even others whose art or music has found success, and
woefully few really understand. Others dismiss everything I say about
art as pretentious and to them I feel immense pity, because their
appreciation of things in life is so limited by this futile
perception of everything, they can't fathom that they actually live
in a world where someone might actually believe in something, believe
in what they say and create. They tear apart the very words I say
because even the sincerity in how I speak is threatening to the
triviality of their lives. I take it as a compliment these days, the
ones too mundane to deserve art continually reveal themselves to be
so. If I sound pretentious, then that just means you are still sane,
because in fact, I do feel tremendous pride in the scale and grandeur
of my enigmatic muse's spiritual might and beauty which has been
revealed to me within and emanates in all that I create. My art and
vision need only make sense to me, that's all that matters. The
grandest monuments stand just as tall whether seen or unseen by
anyone at all. May unbelievers feel free to put distance between
myself and them, I welcome it, because they aren't like me and I'm
not like them. I guess I understand though, because when you're
numbed by the creations made only by those who think similarly in
this way, you can't believe. When you've become accustomed to life
being full of fleeting surface-level things, anything more seems
wholly impossible.
Have
you ever considered doing film soundtracks? And if so, what kind of
films would you be interested in working on? I think you would do
well.
That's
nice of you to say. The plan right now is to create a film and score
it myself. Some things are in development but that's all I can say on
that for the moment. I have done some visual experiments that can be
seen on my YouTube channel, they'll sort of demonstrate where my
creative direction is going in regards to that. No one could replace
Angelo Badalamenti but I would love to work with David Lynch. His
music, art, and films all informed the realm of my earliest
influences. If we're talking about a bigger budget, then I would love
to score a film by David Fincher, Christopher Nolan, Ridley Scott.
I
believe there are (or were) two versions of Ævangelist, and that
there was some kind of conflict within the band. What exactly
happened and what is the current status of the project?
No,
there's only one. I formed the band, then recruited the original
vocalist. They later made some outrageous claims about me to sway
public opinion favorably in their direction when later they would go
on to claim that the band that I created and offered them a position
in is somehow no longer mine. I don't care that they wish to explain
the one aspect that they did contribute, their lyrics, but their
insistence that these were somehow crucial or even fundamental is
objectively untrue. Song titles, album titles, anything with text you
could read were all created by me alone, so whatever meaning they
assign to the title "Enthrall to the Void of Bliss" is
purely on them and totally inconsequential to their lyrics which were
never printed, a decision we had made together back then precisely to
preserve the mystery and not do exactly what they have been doing by
trying to captivate everyone with some "revelations" about
their meaning. I don't give a shit, though. Let them do it if it
makes them happy.
But
returning to this dumb story, naturally I fired them for
participating in this campaign to destroy my reputation, which to
save face they later twisted to people as them "cutting ties
with me", yet not seeing the inherent contradiction in hijacking
a social media page I made, of a band I made, that they were fired
from, to speak about bizarre personal stuff related to themselves and
post selfies. How about the inherent hypocrisy in naming me a
"manipulative abuser" then inventing a huge lie about
"sexual assault" to manipulate the sympathies of our
audience just enough to get their approval when you tell others
you've decided that the band should be yours because of your hurt
feelings?
How
about this example:
Gorgoroth
was started by Infernus. Later, King and Gaahl joined. I think the
best Gorgoroth albums were made with the three of them. But my
-feelings- don't matter. What's -true-, what courts determined to be
true, is that Gorgoroth belongs to Infernus. Gaahl and King
contributed -entire albums- of actual material, not just vocals, and
yet still that doesn't mean the band is theirs whatsoever. Let that
sink in.
When
Legion left Marduk, and was replaced by Arioch from Funeral Mist,
does this mean there is now suddenly TWO Marduks? This isn't
politics, this isn't some asinine public controversy. I don't owe
anyone a fucking thing, let alone the former members any sort of
"say" in this. Ævangelist exists because I created it,
they distanced themselves from me by their own admission, ergo, they
made their own choice, and no amount of bullshit pandering they spoon
feed these fake shitheads that strive to acclaim ownership over
everyone's art on account of their "feelings" can change
that.
Whatever
has been said against me was apparently so flimsy, so weak, that
later discussions they had were even peppered with accusations of
Nazism, and then even outright disparaging of the music and material
that they helped to form with vocals after the fact but still had the
luxury of attaching their illusion of equal status to. I had to
practically beg them to record their parts at times. For how much
they have claimed to "know" about me, we can also be clear
on the fact that they have spent, cumulatively, in our entire lives,
maybe a little over a month's time with me in person. We never met to
record, we only met days before a short run of shows or a festival
gig. They have never seen where I live, met my family, and we'd often
even go weeks or months without really talking. These are facts
ignored or obfuscated by their legion of sycophants who are just like
them, and these are the very "fans" we lost. They only
succeeded in culling away from our audience those who I wouldn't want
to keep around anyway, those are the phonies that care about things
like band "drama" and listen to this music for fashion,
superficial reasons. Our real fans who came for the art and don't
give a shit about any of this stupid crap have stayed and still
listen to the albums and buy the music if they want.
Most
of all, they spread this narrative because, Jimmy, they think YOU are
stupid. They think our fans are stupid assholes like they are and
will do what stupid assholes do and believe anything they read on the
internet as long as the latest self-enthroned celebrity victim has
claimed it to be true. None of this is about anything they said I
did. It's about keeping bullshit alive, because when you're made of
bullshit you have to try to fill the world with as much bullshit as
possible so no one notices how badly you stink. The moral of this
story? Do yourself a favor and get cancelled. It's the new black.
Take a chance on people hating you and don't stop doing what matters
to you because pathetic losers are starving for validation.
But
if anyone is really interested in seeing this for themselves, if
people need "proof", by all means, visit the original
Facebook page or Google any of their interviews, then brace yourself
for an underwhelming fall into the epic cringe-void that is the
Ævangelist band drama. If you do this, sorry in advance for the loss
of precious moments of your life you'll never get back, time probably
better spent on crucial life tasks, such as counting all the grains
of sand in the fucking ocean.
But
have a look at the hilariously inconsistent forms this story has
taken on, with the former vocalist's fans sprinkling in entirely new,
made-up details for the hell of it. Then notice how my story has
never changed. Not one fucking word.
Curiously,
how does one wish for their participation in something to be honored
by totally destroying the image of it, by only embarrassing
themselves with their vanity and lack of self awareness, by outright
exaggerating their importance to the point of delusion? Does this
sound like the actions of someone who gives a single fuck about you
or the music? Decide for yourself, at least I'm giving you that
choice.
This
is all an appropriate metaphor for the times we're living in.
Ævangelist,
in my opinion, has released some pretty amazing and eerie work that
pushed the boundaries in terms of darkness and heaviness. Is there a
difference between the old and the new material? And what inspired
the creative process?
Contrary
to what previous members have claimed, the deeper meaning behind
Ævangelist isn't about Satanism or directly referencing things that
should be elaborated. I could give you a detailed explanation about
what it means to me, but it's irrelevant. The potency of Ævangelist
is that you never really knew and that enabled you to make it your
own, to invent the narrative that scared you. Whatever it is, Jim,
that you find to be eerie or dark or heavy has been dragged from the
abysscape of your own mind and made real through the music.
How
important is it not to stagnate musically? And what do you think of
bands who keep the same style from album to album?
It
depends less about how something exists and matters far more why
something exists. If a band exists to deliver a certain message, the
band can evolve if the delivery of that message doesn't depend on how
the message is packaged. If the message being delivered is inherently
related to the unchanging nature of the music, then the band could
replicate themselves continually. Ultimately, the spectrum of music
and creation is too vast for me to say what should and should be in
regards to myself, let alone someone else's art.
What’s
10 of your favorite movies?
Lord
of Illusions, Mulholland Drive, Trick r' Treat, John Carpenter's
Vampires, Event Horizon, Alien³, Se7en, Hackers, Disturbing
Behavior, Black Circle Boys. That list is at least composed of what
films I'm willing to watch almost any time. Not sure though if that
means it's a favorite film or just ones that are very comforting to
watch, still figuring that out.
What
do you think are some of the biggest problems people are facing in
society today? Do you feel there is always some kind of social
pressure to belong? What does it mean to be free?
Feeling
pressure to belong to society at all might be pretty high on that
list, as far as I can tell. Pressure to belong seems like something
you'd outgrow after high school, but in most cases it actually
worsens. I think the formation of all these groups and scenes around
these positions of moral uprightness and every new ideology invented
on the internet is destructive. Pressure to belong feels like you
feel alienated by merely thinking for yourself. People aren't robots.
Everyone has "problematic" views, people are complicated
and people don't say the right things all the time. People aren't
clever and witty all the time. People like things that are awful or
stupid. All these things are okay and that's the thing that should be
"normalized". Normalize not normalizing things. Let people
be abnormal and gross. Accept that the planet is so massive, so vast,
and people are not the same everywhere; the spectrum of human
experience is not limited to what's happening in your neighborhood or
even in your country. In the scope of all time and space, these
trends and ideas happening now are transient and meaningless, accept
this truth to unlock the places that ignorance has hidden from your
view. Stop dwelling on all the superficial aesthetic things about
yourself. Challenge yourself to learn about the people you hate
instead of talking shit about them simply just to, and here's that
word again, "belong". Accept that belonging is actually in
reality pretty empty unless you have organically acquired a tribe of
your own, and accept that in reality, it will probably be very small
if you do. Accept that this is okay and probably for the best. Accept
that social media does exactly the opposite of what it claims;
instead of bringing people together in any positive way, it brings to
you closer to people better left far, far away. It makes the world
seem small and empty, because all it exposes you to are the smallest,
emptiest ideas, and thus you feel small and empty. Accept that life
is long, that people and opinions change, so it's best to not make
huge drastic choices based on temporary currents in society just to
feel like you "belong". Listen to whatever music you want,
stop being so hard on each other for spiritual weaknesses. Stop being
so hard on yourselves, you're not as bad as you think you are, but go
out and do something of meaning and for fucks sake, stop telling
people about it. Accept that no one is inspired by seeing you gloat
about helping some lady across the street, you're lying to yourself,
that Facebook post is actually just for your glory and you know it
and I know it and it's making both of us dead inside to see that the
only value in being a decent person is in gaining likes and follows
online. Accept that the only real good deeds are done in secret.
Sacrifice glory for humility. I'd probably start by saying something
like that.
What
can you tell us about where you grew up? Did your environment shape
who you are as a person today, and also influence you as an artist?
Who
we all are is a reaction to the lives we have lived, what has
happened to us, and what we desire most.
Your
thoughts on the following:
*
Bethlehem
Jürgen
is a talented guy, and a friend since a long time. He's led a very
interesting life and the stories behind their music are the stuff of
legends, some of the very last we genuinely have.
*
Alice In Chains
Jerry
Cantrell is my favorite guitar player. I grew up in Fort Lauderdale,
Florida but I lived in the Pacific Northwest for several years, in
what, to me, seemed to be the last years it was great and you could
really feel that heavy artistic melancholy of the rainy heroin soaked
streets and epic picturesque landscapes. Whenever I listen to Alice
in Chains, I'm taken back to Portland and I lose myself in that eerie
nostalgia for times past, both good and bad.
*
Portal
I
like Portal, but I don't listen to them especially often. I'm
grateful they exist, though. It's a proper antidote to music when
music becomes mundane.
*
Lords of Chaos
I
think Dead is the only interesting person involved in all this. The
lore of Norway's black metal origins is a good story that gets retold
in increasingly absurd ways, but if anything, that absurdity tells
you that it meant something.
*
Reincarnation
Do
we ever truly die, though?
Are
there any bands as of late that have grabbed your attention? What are
you currently listening to?
Lately,
I'm listening to nothing "new". Besides stuff I'm working
on, I usually have a vague playlist of random songs. Lots of pop and
alternative music from the late 90s / early 2000s. Adina Howard, Pete
Droge, Savage Garden, Hozier, Dishwalla, Goo Goo Dolls, Mr. Mister,
Steve Winwood, Martin Page, Enya, LL Cool J, Michael Jackson. At the
gym, Funeral Mist, Static-X, Acid Bath, Aosoth, Deströyer 666,
Craft, Angantyr, Vonlaus, Clandestine Blaze.
So
what’s next for you and your bands/projects? Thanks for your time!
Visit
my new official platforms, preview of my official site is online now,
grand opening is on new years eve, to include new full length albums
from several projects, old and new.
Thanks
for the interview. You be careful out there in the shadows, Jimmy.
